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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  December 3, 2019 6:00pm-7:00pm PST

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away with white candidates do. it does leave a space for an obama coalition senator harris is sort of talking about, who's going to inherit that? i would argue, chris, that not enough of the candidates we've seen have actually put in place the infrastructure and started doing the communication with voters of color and beyond iowa and new hampshire like quite frankly we did in '07 on the obama campaign. >> that is big question right now. that is "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. california senator kamala harris not that long ago a favorite for the presidential nomination. today she did drop out of the presidential race citing an inability to keep up with the pack financially. today also a federal appeals court just one level below the
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u.s. supreme court ruled that subpoenas to deutsche bank, the scandal ridden bank to which president trump owes hundreds of millions of dollars, subpoenas to deutsche bank and one other bank for the president's financial records and tax returns, those are valid subpoenas according to the second circuit u.s. court of appeals today. that means the banks must hand those materials over to the congressional committees that issued those subpoenas. which means the president's financial records and tax records are that much closer to public disclosure. on any other day stories of that magnitude would be like tearing up the joint in terms of their bombshell news value. but today even major news like that falls into the shadow of this. the impeachment report. the report on the investigation into president trump interceding with a foreign country, interceding with the nation of ukraine to help him in his
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re-election campaign next year. now, the basics. the purpose of this report is to summarize what the intelligence committee has found thus far in its investigation of president trump. tonight that committee, the intelligence committee voted to convey this report to the judiciary committee. what the judiciary committee will now do, they will review this evidence as part of their own decision making process as to whether articles of impeachment should be drawn up against president trump. if the judiciary committee does decide to draw up articles of impeachment, they would vote on those, and those articles would then be convey today the floor of the united states house and the full house would then vote on those articles of impeachment. if a majority of the house of representatives votes for any one of those articles of impeachment, president trump will be impeached. which is basically the constitutional equivalent of him being criminally charged, him
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being criminally indicted. if it does get that far, if even one articles of impeachment against president trump does pass the house, if he does get impeached in that way which frankly seems likely at this point, the president will go on trial for those charges in the united states senate. that trial in the senate would be overseen by the chief justice of the united states supreme court, john roberts. and honestly we'll cross that bridge when we come to it in terms of what that means and what might happen in the u.s. senate. but it does look like that's where we're heading right now. it looks like we're heading now towards the president being impeached in the house and facing a trial in the u.s. senate and a potential removal from office. and we've sort of seen this coming down the pipe but now it's kind of official. it's under way. what a time to be alive. whether or not you have been paying close attention to the impeachment process from the beginning, this report -- this
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impeachment report that was just released from the intelligence committee over to judiciary tonight, and it was released to us, the public, this afternoon. this report is clearly designed to make the whole thing pretty simple. i mean, whether or not you've been paying attention to this before now, this report is written in such a way that you kind of can't miss the major point. i mean, it's a big report including everything is 300 pages, but they start it with a short readable executive summary. and that executive summary itself starts with a single short sort of pressie of what exactly happened here, all nutted up clear and direct. and here's how it starts. quote, the impeachment into donald j. trump uncovered a months long effort by president trump to use the powers of his office to solicit foreign interference on his behalf in the 2020 election.
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president trump's scheme subverted u.s. foreign policy toward ukraine and undermined our national security in favor of two politically motivated investigations that would help his presidential re-election campaign. the president demanded that the newly elected ukrainian president publicly announce investigations into mr. trump's political rival, the political rival he apparently feared the most. and the ukrainian president was also supposed to publicly announce an investigation into a discredited theory it was ukraine, not russia that interfered in the 2016 presidential election. to compel the ukrainian president to do his political bidding, president trump commissioned two official acts on these announcements of investigations. number one, a coveted white house visit. and number two, critical u.s. military assistance that ukraine needed to fight its russian adversary. so that's right at the top.
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that's the opening of the executive summary at the start of the impeachment report. that's like how it starts. here's the bottom line -- now, that said on the off chance you don't have the patient or you don't have the time to read the whole 22-page long executive summary, there's an even shorter approach you can take if you just want to read the preface to the report. there's a preface to the report from the chairman of the committee that did this investigation where he makes it even more clear and even more direct not only what the president did but what's wrong with what the president did. this is from the preface. quote, the president engaged in this course of conduct for the benefit of his own presidential re-election, to harm the erection lus pukts of a political rival. in doing so the president placed his own personal and political interests above the national interests of the united states, sought to undermine the integrity of the u.s.
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presidential election process and endangered u.s. national security. this is from the preface of the report, which is only four pages long. it's four pages plus like a bunch of thank you to the staff who did the work on the report. but that said, if you don't feel like you have the time or the patience to read the 22-page executive summary, if you don't even feel like you have the time or patience to read those four pages -- if that four page is preface is still not going to get itself read, don't kid yourself. i'm never going to get to it. there's an even quicker way you can get to the point here, which is an old cramming for the test trick which i swear i never actually used in school, which is to just look at the headings. you ever use this trick? watch this. it's magic. it's like the childrens book version of a president climbing his way to being impeached. watch. here we go, first heading. the president's request for a
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political favor. then, the president removed anti-corruption champion ambassador marie yovanovitch. then, the president's hand picked agents began the scheme. then, the president froze vital military assistance. then the president conditioned a white house meeting on investigations. then the president pressed president zelensky to do a political favor. then the president's representatives ratcheted up the pressure on the ukrainian president. then the president's security assistance hold became public. then the president's scheme unraveled. then the kicker, the thing that runs in the middle of the credits to keep you sitting in your seats, the president's chief of staff confirmed the aid was conditioned on investigations. all right, so they are covering all their bases here. even if you feel like you don't have time to read the 300-page
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impeachment report there is a 22-page executive summary just for you. don't worry there's a four page preface that nuwraps it all up. and even if you don't feel like you could absorb those two paragraphs here in 78 words is exactly what happened, and which is why this president is on his way to being impeached. 78 words that even have like a plot twist. i mean, we get it now, right? the president decided he was going to demand help from this foreign country against joe biden for his re-election effort. he took out the responsible anti-corruption ambassador there and had his own guys take over the dealings in ukraine for the purposes of this scheme. those guys and the president himself pressured and pressured ukraine, including blocking a white house meeting they really wanted, holding up military assistance to that country. then the whole thing only fell
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apart when they got caught doing it, and so now he's being impeached. you can read about it at any length now. you can read about it in fulsome detail at 300 pages. or you can boil it down to 78 words. but it's all the same story. you know what? there's even more options for you. if you prefer roman numeral, if that's an easier way for you to organize things you can turn to page 34 of the impeachment report. to find the key findings of fact handily summarized in points roman numerals 1 through 9, that's all there, key findings of fact. which lays out the same story told over these 300 pages, same story in the executive summary, the same story in the preface. same story in 78 words. nobody needs to write up their own disingenuous supposed summary of these findings -- bill barr -- to throw people off the scent of what this
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investigation actually found. in this case the impeachment investigators in the house of representatives took no chances. they made sure they summarized this puppy themselves so there can be no misunderstanding. even if you literally don't have the time or patience to read a full 100 words about it, they will still give it to you in a small enough format you can digest it and understand it between here and the next errand that you have to perform without stopping. so that's what we got today. we'll see what the judiciary committee decides to do with this evidence. they've got a singular role when it comes to the process of impeaching a president. they're going to hold their first impeachment hearing tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. it's also worth noting that the judiciary committee is going to consider this evidence gathered by the intelligence committee in this report today, but they're also made clear they're holding open the possibility they'll take additional evidence from
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other congressional comittees as well that have been investigating other aspects of the president's behavior that might be considered high crimes and misdemeanors for the purposes of an impeachment proceeding. we'll have more on that in a moment with a leading member of the judiciary committee who's also a part of house leadership overall. but i will tell you as a person who's paid a lot of attention to this story and spent a lot of time absorbing this new material today, here's what i didn't expect out of this impeachment reporting today, what i did expect in laying out everything they found in this impeachment investigation, including the committee, you know, organizing their findings into second one, the president's misconduct and section 2, the president's obstruction of the impeachment inquiry, in seeing them lay out and organize what they found, i guess i should have expected it, but i didn't really get it until i saw it all laid out in this
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report today. that having them break it down and lay it out in this format makes it much easier to see the rationale for breaking all these arguments and allegations up into separate articles of impeachment. it is really one story what the president was trying to do and the leverage he brought to bear on this foreign country and how wrong that is. but when you see them lay out that evidence and how they got that evidence and the different sorts of crimes, high crimes and misdemeanors that might be implicated here, you can see how this might evolve into articles of impeachment against president trump. nbc news reported today the judiciary committee is considering -- into an article of impeachment that's based around the idea of abuse of power. and there's precedent for that. abuse of power was the subject of the third article of impeachment that was brought against president richard nixon.
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here if nbc's reporting is borne out, abuse of power as an article of impeachment, that would encompass all the stuff about president trump pressuring ukraine to give him help in his 2020 re-election effort. but if you follow this through, if you did isolate that in one article of impeachment. if you isolated president trump trying to get foreign help for his re-election effort in a single impeachment article, well, that would leave room for a second separate impeachment article based on president trump making that demand of ukraine a transactional thing. so him telling ukraine to help him with his re-election effort, that would be one article of impeach mgt, abu impeachment, abuse of power. but if they did it that way, that would leave room for a second article of impeachment. on top of that you could have a second article that was him withholding a white house
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meeting and him withholding military aid from ukraine to try and get that help from ukraine for that election. the kind of leverage he brought to bear on that country, the stuff he knew that country wanted and needed and wouldn't give them unless he gave those investigations that could be an article of impeachment. that second one if you isolate it that way, that conceivably could be an article of impeachment based around the idea of extortion and bribery. right, conditioning an official act on receiving some benefit from yourself, that's bribery. if you're an official who can control whether or not an official act happens and you say, no, i'm not going to do that official act unless you give me a little something for me, that's bribery. and bribebry is explicitly in the constitution. the vice president, vice
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president and all civil officers of the united states shall be removed from office on impeachment for or conviction of of course treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors. if they are going to break out into its own article, but the specific issue of the president making official acts of the u.s. government conditional on him getting personal political favors from ukraine, that means we could be looking at an artic article of impeachment against president trump for bribery, which is explicitly in the constitution about what you use impeachment for. and if they are going to do that, i feel like i can see more clearly and with the new evidence presented in this report we haven't seen before, you can see the building blocks of there's a lot in this report just released today that
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supports the seriousness not just of the president trying to get help from ukraine to get him get re-elected. but on the issue of the president holding up specifically that military aid, there's a whole bunch of evidence here nuts and bolts proven stuff how serious that was and how people involved in it at the time knew how serious it was. for one thing they knew it was illegal. on pages 71 and 72 there's this. president trump freezes the military assistance to ukraine, and agency experts repeatedly objected to the hold of security assistance to ukraine. quote, senior agency officials raised serious concerns about the legality of the hold. nevertheless president trump continued the hold despite agency concerns about legality. how did they pull this off if it was illegal? they had to mcgiver something. they had to invent a weird system to try to keep the whole thing looking legal.
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what they had to invent at the budget office to make it seem sort of legal what the president was doing, they needed someone to keep signing off on holding up the military aid over 2 to 6 days. now, that's not usually how this works. they needed an operate to keep doing this thing otherwise they thought it would look too bl blatantly illegal. they had to take the white house staffer who would normally be in charge of this kind of thing, they had to take him off the job and give that job to a trump political appointee instead. that's on page 78 of the report. what they were doing at the budget office to cover-up the illegal scheme to with hold this military aid was so bad that two different white house officials quit their jobs rather than be part of this scheme. on page 80, quote, concerns
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about whether the administration was bending if not breaking the law concerning at least two omb officials resigning including one in the office of general council. nevertheless omb continued to implement the hold. so it's a serious thing, right? it's one thing he's trying to get help from ukraine to help him in the next election. that itself is likely to get him impeached on abuse of power grounds. but him withholding this military aid in order to get him help from ukraine. it's so serious it puts this agency really into crisis. people start quitting in protest, they have to start installing people who do this. the reopting has to happen every couple of days. that's getting nuts. and now on top of all that we get something we never knew today from this report, which is phone call records.
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including surprise the news that at the time omb was in this crisis, that omb was mcgivering together and they're installing their own trump political appointee to take over the process because all the career people keep saying meeting after meeting hey this is illegal, we can't do this. hey, look at that now we know somebody at that office, somebody at omb is repeatedly on the phone with rudy giuliani. wait a second. rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer who has no government job is on the phone with the office of management and budget? quote, in the middle of -- excuse me, on the midafternoon of august 8th someone using a telephone number associated with the office of management and budget, omb, called mr. giuliani
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and the call lasted nearly 13 minutes. mr. giuliani called the omb office and white house situation room several times that evening. this is the office of management and budget. they're in charge of dispersing the money the federal government sends. here's a serious agency with a real job to do. that's in the middle of a crisis here because of the president ordering this illegal hold. people are quitting, people are being yanked out of their jobs after pointing out the ord, is coming down from the white house are likely illegal. the agency is defying its own staff warnings. staff keep telling him, hey, holding up this aid is illegal, we don't do that. and the president pchs lawyer is on the phone directly with that agency while that is all going down. oh. and it's not the only time. giuliani's on the phone directly
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with omb back in april as well. what's that about? i mean, knowing mr. giuliani's history it's possible those are butt dials. have you ever accidently butt dialled a white house agency, i haven't either. but why would the office of management and budgedt need to talk to rudy giuliani who again is not a government official? for one thing we didn't know it was part of the impeachment inquiry they got these call records. among the things we've learned from these call records is for some reason the president's lawyer who was deeply involved in the scheme was on the phone personally with the illegal agency carrying out the overtly part of this repeatedly during the scheme. also from those call records we learn izarly that the top republican congress on the intelligence committee, the very vocal trump defender, devin nunes, he himself turns up in
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these call records that were obtained by his own committee. he turns up in these call records talking with rudy giuliani during the course of his scheme. and recall he talks to other people involved in this scheme as well. how could devin nunes -- congressman, we participating in the official investigation of the scheme without ever disclosing his own apparent involvementual all of the people who were this scheme? we'll get to that a little bit later on. but all of this super serious stuff they turned up about the withholding of military aid to ukraine, potentially a bribery article of impeachment, that also points outs for all there stuff they were able to unearth here, there is definitely a cost to obstruction. there's a cost to the country. there's a cost to us knowing what happened here when people refused to testify. it's not just some washington
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fight that's about who thinks they're more than somebody else and who wants to take a lard line because i think it makes them sound tough on tv. take john bolton. he was the third trump national security advisor to resign or get fired when he left the administration in september of this year. on page 80 of this report we get confirmation president trump and john bolton met one-on-one in august to talk about trump'sropies to keep folding up military aid and ukraine. a one-on-one meeting between the president and john bolton specifically on that subject. what happened at that meeting? i don't know. won't say. refusing to testify. >> additionally it has always been of intense interest to me since we first started covering this scandal, the timing of john bolton leving this administration. he quit on september 10th, just as congress was starting to
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stand up and yell about trump holding up that aid to ukraine. it was just as congress was derning to say it was trump personally holding up that aid and he was doing so for illegal reasons because he wanted joe biden investigations at the cost of handing that money over. >> john bolton quit or was fired september 10th just as congress is making noise about that, just as the whistle-blower complaint is becoming known to congress and one day before the military aid to ukraine is finally released because of all that public pressure. he leaves the administration september 10th with a fight over whether he resigned or fired. is that a coincidence? is the holdup of this military aid part of why john bolton quit or he got fired? doneo. we're not allowed to know because john bolton won't say. here's page 143 of the report.
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quote, on september 10th john bolton resigned. his deputy became the acting national security advisor. the committee was unable to determine his departure was related to matters under investigation buzz neither he nor dr. cupperman decided to appear before this inquiry. >> and that's the final point here. it's half of this report, it's second two of this report. and it's half of this report with an exclamation point because the obstruction efforts by the president have affiliated our ability to actually figure out what happened here. and more broadly than that, it's a -- it's sort of one size of a crisis in this country. if a president commits crimes and tries to enlist foreign countries to help him get re-elected, that's one size of
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an american crisis. if the president tries to yusz the powers of the presidency to get away with that crime or any other crime. and so we get this sort of war cry from the impeachment committee about how important obstruction is basically and why he ought to be impeached for that in addition to his behavior in office. quote, donald trump is the first president in the history of the united states to seek to completely obstruct an impeachment inquiry undertaken by the house of representatives under the article of constitution. president trump ordered federal agencies and officials to disregard all requests for documents and defy all duly authorized subpoenas for records. and also directed all officials of in the executive branch not to testify even when compelled. no other president has flouted the constitution and oversight of congress, no other president has claimed for himself the
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house's right dedeny an impoachment proceeding, to compel the scope or forbid any and all cooperation from the executive branch. even president richard nixon who obstructed congress by refusing to turn over key evidence, even nixon who permitted his aids and advisers to produce documents and testify to congressional committees. if left unanswered president trump's on gheg effort to thwart president trump's impeachment power risks doing grave harm to the constitution of congress and the constitutional order that the president and every member of congress have sworn to protect and defend. and part of that's war cry from the impeachment inquire afrom protecting the kauntsitution and protecting the president's obstruction. that not being a side issue here
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but a central issue that part about war cry you should look how the report ends. at the very end of the report, what they land on is the evidence they collected about the president intimidating witnesses. and specifically the president going after the whistle-blower. they end on that in this impeachment report saying fw that is not punished, the precedent of that witness intimidation, the precedent of that whistle-blower intimidation and retaliation will become normalized, will become the way of the world when it comes to the u.s. presidency and what's seen as acceptable behavior. you know, if they do end up breaking this all down into smaller separate articles of impeachment rather than just one big thing, if the attacks on the witnesses and whistle-blower are broken out into their own
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articles of impeachment, well just note on this day the impeachment report ends, it closes, the very last thing in the report are three quotes from three republican u.s. senators who have all condemned the president's attacks on the whistle-blower in this case. three u.s. senators who are all republicans who all believe in standing up for whistle-blower as as a general matter and who have all specifically condemned president trump for his treatment of the whistle-blower here. by ending with them, by ending with republican senators condemning the president's behavior and calling out the seriousness of it, the question that is called here is a big deal, right? and it's going to end up being a big deal for all of us. that's why those republicans like those senators are only willing to condemn this president's behavior when they're asked about it, or whether they'll stand up in public and cast their vote. case
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the impeachment report on president trump that was released to the public today and is being conveyed to the judiciary committee now, it represents the finding of an investigation that isn't done.
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which is interesting, right? they're still sending out subpoenas. they still apparently expect to hear from more witnesses. they will still learn more about this thing that they have investigated. here's why they say they didn't wait until the investigation was totally over with before producing this report. here's why they said they needed to produce this thing and move on now. quote, there remain unanswered questions, and our investigation must continue even as we transmit our report to the judiciary committee. given the proximate threat of further presidential attempts to solicit foreign interfierce in our next election, we cannot wait to make a referral until our efforts to obtain testimony and documents wienld their way through the courts. quote orb on october 3, 2019, even as our inquiry was engaged in this president trump declared a new saying, quote, china should start an investigation into the bidens and that, quote, president zelensky if it were me, i would recommend they start
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an investigation into the bidens. when a reporter asked president trump what he hoped ukraine's president would do following the july 25th call, president trump seeking to dispel any doubt responded to the reporter, quote, well i would think if they were honest about it they'd start a major investigation into the bidens, it's a very simple answer. quote, by doubling down on his miz conduct and declaring his july 25th call with zen skewas perfect, president trump has shown a continued willingness to use the power of his office to seek foreign intervention in our next election. and so we cannot wait because that next election is barrelling down upon us. chairman schiff says in his report, quote, this is urgent and the risk is grave. we have a president who publicly urged foreign gumps to interfere in our election, to help him in the 2020 election even as he was affectively in trouble for that kind of conduct already.
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the 2020 election barrelling into view. that's why we have this impeachment report tonight even though the investigation isn't even done. joining us now is congressman hakeem jeffreys which puts him in a senior democratic house leadership post. thank you for being here tonight. it's an honor to have you. >> good evening. great to be with you. >> i've been trying to sum up what's new and what we found here and what is likely to happen next in your committee. what can you tell us about how the house as a whole and judiciary is going to move on this next? >> we're going to continue to move expeditiously because it relates to an urgent national matter of concern and requires action and accountability. at the hearing tomorrow before the house judiciary committee you can expect we'll explore the framers of the constitution had as it relates to potential aberrant presidential behavior. what we're going to see stlis t
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the framers of the constitution had three particular concerns. a, abuse of power. b, the betrayal of the constitution for personal gain. and c, corruption of the election process. president donald trump's misconduct has managed to implicate the impeachment trifecta. he's actually engaged in behavior across the board that the framers of the constitution would have found abhorrent, so we're going to explore that. we're going to continue to follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the constitution and present the truth to the american people. >> in terms of that corruption of the election process you were just describing i was interested to hear chairman schiff today when he spoke to reporters but also to read in the report a real sense of urge ens this needs to happen fast, essentially. this needs to happen right now and it can't wait. in part because there is a risk to the 2020 election that the president is still at this point actively courting for an int
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interference in the 2020 election, that he doesn't see anything wrong with it, he certainly shouldn't be impeached for it. do you believe the judiciary committee is bound by that urgency, that there's a time line by which you need to wrap up your proceedings in order to sort of keep the 2020 elections safe from the president's behavior? >> absolutely. i can say that speaker pelosi who's provided tremendous leadership, the entire house democratic caucus, the intel committee, the judiciary committee every single one of us feels a sense of urgency as it relates to what the president has done in the past, what he may be doing now and what apparently he believes he can continue to do because he hasn't experienced any consequences to date. what's amazing here is the president clearly pressured a foreign government to target an american citizen solely for political gain and in the process solicited interference in the 2020 election beginning a day after bob mueller testified on the hill. and so there was a clear sense
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of urgency as it relates to what we have to do. we'll continue to proceed in a serious, solemn and sober fashion. that's what the moment requires. but it also requires us to act decisively so we can bring about some measure of presidential accountability. no one is above the law. >> congressman jeffries, i know the white house told your committee they don't expect to have anybody at the hearing, they're not sending the president's lawyers. do you any indication whether or not the white house is going to refuse to participate forever or is that just applied at tomorrow's hearing? >> well, that remains to be seen but as you so thoroughly covered a few moments ago what we've seen from the president and his administration is a pattern and practice of obstructive behavior. they continue to hide facts, hide evidence, hide documents, high witnesses from the american people. if it was a perfect call when the president said do us a
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favor, though, then what is the explanation we haven't heard from bolton or mulvaney or secretary of state pompeo? so we continue to hold out hope we'll hear from the white house, and they'll decide to participate in the proceedings that are likely to take place next week, and they're under a friday deadline to respond us to and to chairman nadler. >> member of the judiciary committee, chair of the house democratic caucus. sir, get a good nights sleep. we'll all be up watching tomorrow's proceedings. much more to get to tonight. stay with us. proceedings much more to get to tonight. stay with us (children playing) ♪ (music building) experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment.
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here's a rabbit that popped out of a hat in today's report from the house intelligence committee on its impeachment investigation. turns out the lead republican member of congress on the intelligence committee that's been doing the impeachment investigation -- turns out he himself appears to have been involved in the scheme the committee was investigating. there is at the very least this new circumstantial evidence that the top republican congressman on the committee doing this investigation was himself frequently communicating with multiple people involved in this scheme while they were carrying out the scheme. shouldn't congressman devin nunes have had to recuse himself from the investigation? this is like -- like imagine you're a cop, you're investigating a bank robbery in your town. then it turns out that the bank robber was your roommate and you were on the phone with him
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during the heist, right? what would the chief of police do to you if the chief found out that's the circumstance you were in with regard to that bank robbery and you've been part of the investigation into the bank robbery, right? that would be a problem for you working on that investigation. i doubt you would stay a cop for long. so this is whole new plot point that will presumably have tee be explained. but the whole reason we now have this information is that the impeachment investigation got call records, got phone call records. i'm not sure the house was going to get phone records and from people who obviously didn't give their permission. we're going to talk about the evidence the impeachment investigation has obtained and what it might mean in terms of the improvability with chuck rosenberg who's live here in the studio next. rosenberg who's live here in the studio next. man: sneezes
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he borrowed billions donald trump failed as a businessman. and left a trail of bankruptcy and broken promises. he hasn't changed. i started a tiny investment business, and over 27 years, grew it successfully to 36 billion dollars. i'm tom steyer and i approve this message. i'm running for president because unlike other candidates, i can go head to head with donald trump on the economy, and expose him fo what he is: a fraud and a failure.
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joining us now here on set is somebody i've been looking forward to talking to all day. chuck rosenberg is a former senior justice department and fbi official, former u.s.
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attorney. chuck, thank you so much for being here to talk to us. >> my pleasure. >> i know you got a chance to go through portions of of the report. let me just ask what you think we should be -- a, if there's anything here that surprises you or that seems particularly meaty in terms of us understanding what happens next. >> i thought they did a wonderful job, rachel of just telling the story. if there was a failing in the mueller report which i found enormously substantive was that the story was buried, it was hard to sort of get to it. here as you illustrated in the opening of your show tonight, they did a wonderful job of just laying it out. that's what prosecutors do. they tell the jury they're going to tell them a story, and then they tell them a story and tell them the story they just told. >> so given that clarity obviously that avoids some of what happened to the mueller report in terms of what landed. there's not going to be anybody's got an opportunity like bill barr did to produce his own sort of -- his own spin,
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his own proverbalial summary of the report that doesn't actually capture what it's about. but in terms of guiding an investigation, what does this tell you about how the investigation has been conducted, the kinds of material they've got access to? i for one was surprised they had call records. we didn't know they had subpoenaed the phone companies. >> we didn't know that. but if you think about the basic building blocks of a federal investigation -- i grew up on the criminal side, but the basic building blocks, phone records, credit reports and bank records, they don't tell you the whole story but they're remarkably important investigative leads. i was a little surprised too to see they had call records. we should spend a moment talking about call records, what they tell you and don't tell you, right? their metadata. they tell the person who receives the records that my telephone was in contact with your telephone for a certain period of time on a particular day. sometimes you can get cell tower records and know roughly where
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you were and where i was, or at least where our phones were when that connection occurred. they don't give you content. and the content is what really matters. these are incredibly important leads, but what were they talking about? that's what we need to know. >> on that point i want to ask you how this might interact with some of the criminal investigations here. chuck rosenberg is our guest. we'll be back with him after this. stay with us. 'll be back with hr this stay with us >> tech: don't wait for a chip like this to crack your whole windshield. with safelite's exclusive resin, you get a strong repair that you can trust. plus, with most insurance a safelite repair is no cost to you. >> customer: really?! >> singers: safelite repair, safelite replace. -excuse me. uh... do you mind...being a mo-tour?
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chuck rosenberg, former senior justice department fbi official. chuck, thanks again for being here on a day like this. getting those call records and it being sort of metadata, whose phone talked to who else's phone on what day and what time. there's a reference in the report i think we can put this up on-screen --. in contrast to mr. giuliani and mr. fruman, lev parnas has begun rolling certain records in response to his subpoena which committees are evaluating. committees expect mr. parnas' full compliance with the subpoena. some of what they've got from this guy under indictment in the southern district of new york, what should we be watching for ther there? >> it strikes me mr. parnas is cooperating. you should also be prepared to cooperate fully because if you want to avoid prison or a lot of prison the best you can do as a defendant is cooperate truthfully and fully.
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it seems that's what he's doing now, rachel. >> in terms of trying to get credit from prosecutors of him trying to help in the impeachment committees. >> correct. the impeachment committees can't keep him out of jail. the prosecutors conceivably can -- >> they could if they offered him immunity in exchange for his testimony but presumably they wouldn't do that. >> that strikes me as highly unlikely. assuming they don't offer him any sort of immunity, prosecutors are his ticket out. they have to be convinced he's completely truthful, he's been helpful in all of these different venues and it seems he's trying to help the impeachment inquiry. parnas is the guy who can give you the substance the call records don't give you. the call records tell you who the ask and construct the tim line. time lines are important in investigative work because as you know things begin to come together, travel and conversations and text messages become more clear and more crisp on the time line. by prosecutors can now ask
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parnas, were you on that call, what did you say and what did he say? and that's what really matters. >> chuck rosenberg, former senior justice department, great to have you here. we'll be right back. stay with us. e you here we'll be right back. stay with us we're portuguese? i thought we were hungarian. can you tell me that story again? behind every question is a story waiting to be discovered. this holiday, start the journey with a dna kit from ancestry. billions of problems. morning breath? garlic breath? stinky breath? there's a therabreath for you. therabreath fresh breath oral rinse instantly fights all types of bad breath and works for 24 hours. so you can... breathe easy. there's therabreath at walmart. for a limited time, get a outb4-course meal your holidays even better! starting at $15.99. treat yourself to the perfect gift today, because the aussie 4-course won't last long! and now, get a $10 gift with every $50 in gift cards.
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most cold medicines may raise blood pressure. coricidin hbp is the... ...#1 brand that gives... powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure. all right, that is pretty much going to do it for us tonight. i will tell you with the release of the impeachment report today, the impeachment inquiry does now formally move over to the judiciary committee. tomorrow morning they're going to have a panel of four constitutional law experts, three called by the democrats, one called by the republicans. they'll be talking about the constitutional grounds for impeachment. should be fascinating. it'll also be fascinating to see how the judiciary committee is going to handle this in terms of staff asking questions, members asking questions. hearing itself starts at 10:00 a.m. eastern. our special coverage here at msnbc starts off at 9:00 eastern. we'll see you there. now it's time for the "last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> our first guest tonight is


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